[Pumptesting] [Shtrustees] PROBLEM UPDATE - next step Aug 11 2025 - diagnostic test of fire pump tank float switch sensor

Tue Aug 19 12:34:59 EDT 2025

Thank you Daver!!!

I will probably do a pump test tomorrow (Wednesday)

On Mon, Aug 18, 2025 at 19:23 David Ritchie <daver at theworld.com> wrote:

> I have jury-rigged a way to manually fill the cistern.  There's a short
> green extension cord plugged into a power supply in the gray box.  Plug
> that in and the cistern will start filling.  Unplug it and it will stop.
> This does not draw much current so it could easily be plugged into a light
> timer to run automatically for a few minutes a day.
>
> The cistern fill flows about 70 gallons per minute when open so it is more
> than capable of depleting our drinking water supply if left filling for too
> long.  If you turn it on, be sure to monitor the drinking water tank level
> and turn it off when appropriate.  I'd suggest not going below 5 feet on
> that tank.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2025 at 8:10 PM Tara Halwes via Shtrustees <
> shtrustees at lists.sawyerhill.org> wrote:
>
>> Don't worry, you can still join the fun too.
>>
>> The pump tank sensor or something in the box with the controller for it
>> is messed up, causing it to always signal "refill me! I'm not up to 7 feet
>> yet!" ... Even when it's overfilled and dumping to the swale.
>>
>> For now (since the water issue Saturday night) the tank sensor and
>> controller are again disconnected from both wall and battery power, because
>> when we reconnect them all of the fresh water dumps out of the freshwater
>> reservoir in less than half a day and then we have no water on site.
>>
>> Except in the swale, that gets quite wet. Not very useful unless you're a
>> frog.
>>
>> However we know that the fire pump tank level was maxed out because it
>> overflowed, so it hit just above 8 ft.
>>
>> We also know no sprinklers have gone off so there is still plenty of
>> water in there.
>>
>> We (or someone so may as well be pump testers plus Daver and Ryan), on
>> behalf of the Sawyer Hill trustees (especially while Adam is in Canada),
>> need to keep an eye on the level while the sensor is not working and the
>> autofill is disabled.
>>
>> Next step will be tomorrow around ... I think we said 1:30 p.m.. DaveR
>> and I will disconnect the sensor from the controller so that we can test it
>> independently and see if it's totally blown or what.
>>
>> Hopefully it is totally blown.
>>
>> No really, that would be great because that would be a single specific
>> thing that we know needs to be replaced and would explain the bad behavior.
>>
>> If the sensor seems fine then we have a problem in the Levcon controller
>> or the part of the box that the power comes through from the wall outlet.
>> Ryan tested the voltage at various points though and I don't think that
>> side component is faulty. It's only spitting out 10.2 volts to the control
>> panel but on closer inspection the control panel should be happy with
>> anything above 9 volts up to 24. We don't think it's the battery because
>> that was recently replaced and also was able to successfully take a charge
>> on a trickle charger when removed from the control panel. So most likely
>> the Levcon control panel itself or the float tank sensor.
>>
>> The battery was behaving really strangely while connected to the
>> controller, but the leads to the terminals were loose and the connection
>> was bad which might be part of the battery draining. Maybe it also messed
>> up something in the controller that can get unmessed up. I'm not sure
>> exactly, but I don't think the new battery itself is the source of the
>> problem, I think it's just a symptom.
>>
>> I'm not actually sure what our next step will be after testing the
>> sensor, but we are in the process of ruling out various possibly failed
>> components while still protecting both the fire suppression and freshwater
>> systems.
>>
>> Tara
>> 508-361-9605
>>
>> On Sunday, August 10, 2025, Courtney Lewis <courtney.d.lewis at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For some reason, all of these emails are just showing up in my email box
>>> now?
>>> Sorry you guys have been dealing with this all week
>>> Sent from my phone with the “help” of my two young ones
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 10, 2025, at 3:09 PM, Tara Halwes <tarahalwes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> After 2 days the battery is up from around 6V to around 8.5V. Still not
>>> 12V but I guess it's charging now? (And / or I don’t actually know how to
>>> use a multimeter)
>>>
>>> tank level display is still jumping around wildly, but went from a lower
>>> jumping range to a higher jumping range after I unplugged and then plug
>>> back in the battery charger. Still, the highest number I’ve seen flash on
>>> the screen is 6.7 and scrolling through the relay statuses, the auto fill
>>> should be going (and still is not). Based on DaveR's Prior troubleshooting
>>> guesses, I assume this could still be due to the battery not being
>>> sufficiently charged for that relay to successfully signal the solenoid
>>> it's supposed to talk to. we had hoped it would have come on by now, but we
>>> were also assuming that the battery would be back up to 12 V by now, so I
>>> believe the next step is either too immediately replace this battery or two
>>> continue letting it charge and check back to see if the tank fill line has
>>> been triggered by tomorrow or Sunday.
>>>
>>> I’m hoping to have provided enough detail here that any regular tester
>>> on this list could check on that if you're available this Sunday but if
>>> it’s not clear enough what I’m talking about please let me know.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 17:18 Tara Halwes <tarahalwes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The tank level was still reading low, fluctuating rapidly between
>>>> around 4.7 and 5.1 feet.DaveR came out and did a visual inspection, and we
>>>> measured it at approximately 6 feet, which means the sensor reading is
>>>> incorrect, but also the level is still low enough that the auto fill
>>>> solenoid should have triggered, and it very obviously was not running. So a
>>>> couple things need to happen in the next day or two.
>>>>
>>>> First is we need to give the battery on on the sensor panel time to
>>>> recharge. The battery was down to something like 6 V and should be at 12.
>>>> It’s fairly new. One of the terminal leads was extremely loose so that was
>>>> tightened and it is possible That will be enough to get it to charge
>>>> correctly. It is also possible that when it charges correctly, The other
>>>> issues will resolve, but in case they don’t:
>>>>
>>>> - Make sure the battery charged back up to 12 V
>>>> - Verify the auto fill triggered and the tank is back up to 8 feet, or
>>>> at least above 6.9.
>>>> - if it sounds like it’s filling, but the panel still reads low,
>>>> visually inspect the tank level. Also check for running water sounds in the
>>>> great behind unit number 80 as that would indicate it kept filling past 8
>>>> feet which it should not do if the sensor is working correctly.
>>>> - Recalibrate the tank level sensor if it’s still reading incorrectly,
>>>> but the tank has filled back up. This procedure should be covered in the
>>>> manual above the control panel, but if not, DaveR can help.
>>>>
>>>> Default plan is Tara will do these things, but various medical
>>>> appointments might necessitate someone else stepping in to check on the
>>>> battery, etc.
>>>>
>>>> The rest of the test went fine and does not need to be redone until
>>>> next week. The system will come off of TEST in four minutes at 5:21 PM. I
>>>> will be unavailable for further troubleshooting this evening, but the
>>>> battery needs to charge anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Tara
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 14:51 Mike Gaisford <mgaisford at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I’m not been able to get back there to test. If you’re able to do it
>>>>> that would be great. Otherwise, I will try to do it tonight.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 2:43 PM Tara Halwes <tarahalwes at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Julius or Mike,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you re-test? If you did, let me know soon? Otherwise I’ll attempt
>>>>>> it sometime in the next 2 hours and report back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m reachable by phone or SMS text to:
>>>>>> 508-361-9605
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>> Tara
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2025 at 12:37 Phéna Proxima <adam at phenaproxima.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike asked if we should re-test. Per Daver:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, re-test as normal. If it keeps happening, try only opening the
>>>>>>> test valve enough to get a consistent drop in pressure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any further questions, let me know. I will also document this
>>>>>>> conversation and its findings in the SH trustee manual.
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 5th, 2025 at 12:20 PM, Mike Gaisford <
>>>>>>> mgaisford at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So is the direction to retest?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2025 at 12:12 PM Phéna Proxima <adam at phenaproxima.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Update from Daver on the sensor issue:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No need for Encore. What happened is that the waterflow sensor for
>>>>>>>> the building's own sprinkler system tripped. The waterflow sensor is near
>>>>>>>> the test valve. If there's a lot of turbulence in the pipes, that can fool
>>>>>>>> the sensor into thinking there's water flowing. Opening the test valve wide
>>>>>>>> open can make this more likely.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It doesn't mean there's anything wrong. Just keep lowering the
>>>>>>>> pressure until it gets to 80 PSI and the main pump turns on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Pumptesting mailing list
>>>>>>>> Pumptesting at lists.sawyerhill.org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.sawyerhill.org/mailman/listinfo/pumptesting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Pumptesting mailing list
>>>>>>> Pumptesting at lists.sawyerhill.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.sawyerhill.org/mailman/listinfo/pumptesting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pumptesting mailing list
>>> Pumptesting at lists.sawyerhill.org
>>> http://lists.sawyerhill.org/mailman/listinfo/pumptesting
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Shtrustees mailing list
>> Shtrustees at lists.sawyerhill.org
>> http://lists.sawyerhill.org/mailman/listinfo/shtrustees
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.sawyerhill.org/pipermail/pumptesting/attachments/20250819/33c29efc/attachment-0001.html>