[Pumptesting] PROBLEM UPDATE - next step Aug 11 2025 - diagnostic test of fire pump tank float switch sensor

[Tara Halwes]

Hi Adam. update from today, we are currently working on the assumption that
the level sensor itself is the problem and needs to be replaced, which is
consistent with all of the data and observations we’ve gathered so far.

Encore DOES NOT test or service that sensor; they have had nothing to do
with it directly, although it is an important piece of a mandatory
component of our fire suppression system.

The first time it went bad about 5 years in, Daver replaced it himself. The
last time (around 2018) he ordered one and asked SWSS if they would install
it, which they were happy to do, even though it is not their responsibility
or part of our service contract with them. I just think it’s super
important to know which professionals we can engage to handle maintenance
on things that have traditionally been done by residents/homeowners.

This in particular is a Sawyer Hill Trustee responsibility that has been
primarily handled by Daver since move-in, and which SWSS may be able to
advise or assist with in the future.

The sensor itself, disconnected from the control panel, is giving
fluctuating amperage readings when they should be steady. They are not only
going down slowly, which they should not be doing, but also jumping around.

We continue to leave the controller disconnected, but the good news is the
problem does seem to be with the sensor itself. They’ve come down in price
a bit recently and we might be able to get a direct replacement for
$500-$600 instead of $1500.

We are still doing data gathering to confirm our hypothesis, but I think it
makes sense at this point for you to reach out to SWSS (not Encore) and see
if they’re available to help us with this replacement. Dave can certainly
do it again, and if he does, I will document everything for your manual,
but we are also wondering if SWSS has thoughts about alternate sensors
types, and specifically what they think of the ultrasonic sensor used on
the freshwater tank. We're speculating that the pressure-based level
sensors that need to stay in the water are degrading faster than that
ultrasonic style would, so now is a good time to look at whether switching
to a different style makes sense.

Also, I previously incorrectly referred to what we have as a tank float
switch, which it is not, although I think we have those in our septic. Dave
acknowledged that we could probably accomplish what we need with tank float
switches here, but we don't like that option due to the fact that we would
never be able to get a reading of the current tank level, just an
approximation based on which switches are flipped or not. We want to be
able to set a tighter range of refill trigger so we never draw too much off
of the freshwater tank at a time.

Historesis? Did I spell that wrong?

Not enough detail? Too much detail? Want to reach out to SWSS either way
and just let them know. We’re thinking about replacing our fire pump tank
level sensor with something like the ultrasonic one that is currently
installed on our freshwater tank and want to know their thoughts. It should
be possible to hook one of those up to our existing Levcon controller.

Cheers
Tara

On Sun, Aug 10, 2025 at 20:36 Phéna Proxima <adam at phenaproxima.net> wrote:

> Last time the tank sensor was flaky, Daver and I not replaced the battery
> and didn't call Encore. That was...I dunno, a month or two ago?
>
> I am not sure if Encore inspects the level sensor at all, tbh, since
> that's not *technically* part of the fire pump? OTOH, it is possible it
> was inspected, and was working on the day they happened to show up.
>
> Adam
>
> On Sunday, August 10th, 2025 at 8:33 PM, Tara Halwes <tarahalwes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yes and no, please stand by?
>
> What did they do last time the tank sensor wasn't working? Is that when
> the control panel 12v battery was replaced? Can you forward any service
> notes or any visit summary from their recent quarterly inspection if you
> have them? We obviously need to consult with them soon but I want this data
> point first. I'm wondering why this wasn't noticed at that time, for
> example, and or if something in their inspection knocked a battery terminal
> loose.
>
> I'm not looking to place blame but I want to get as clear a picture as we
> can of the symptoms and timeline so we can get the right thing fixed
> sooner.
>
> For my birthday I would like:
> Coffee
> Data collection
> And maybe a pastry
>
> Tara
>
> On Sunday, August 10, 2025, Phéna Proxima <adam at phenaproxima.net> wrote:
>
>> Just FYI, this is absolutely something I'm comfortable calling in Encore
>> to deal with to diagnose, if you'd prefer. Please keep me posted. I can
>> certainly call them and ask them to come out.
>>
>> Adam
>> On Sunday, August 10th, 2025 at 8:10 PM, Tara Halwes <
>> tarahalwes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Don't worry, you can still join the fun too.
>>
>> The pump tank sensor or something in the box with the controller for it
>> is messed up, causing it to always signal "refill me! I'm not up to 7 feet
>> yet!" ... Even when it's overfilled and dumping to the swale.
>>
>> For now (since the water issue Saturday night) the tank sensor and
>> controller are again disconnected from both wall and battery power, because
>> when we reconnect them all of the fresh water dumps out of the freshwater
>> reservoir in less than half a day and then we have no water on site.
>>
>> Except in the swale, that gets quite wet. Not very useful unless you're a
>> frog.
>>
>> However we know that the fire pump tank level was maxed out because it
>> overflowed, so it hit just above 8 ft.
>>
>> We also know no sprinklers have gone off so there is still plenty of
>> water in there.
>>
>> We (or someone so may as well be pump testers plus Daver and Ryan), on
>> behalf of the Sawyer Hill trustees (especially while Adam is in Canada),
>> need to keep an eye on the level while the sensor is not working and the
>> autofill is disabled.
>>
>> Next step will be tomorrow around ... I think we said 1:30 p.m.. DaveR
>> and I will disconnect the sensor from the controller so that we can test it
>> independently and see if it's totally blown or what.
>>
>> Hopefully it is totally blown.
>>
>> No really, that would be great because that would be a single specific
>> thing that we know needs to be replaced and would explain the bad behavior.
>>
>> If the sensor seems fine then we have a problem in the Levcon controller
>> or the part of the box that the power comes through from the wall outlet.
>> Ryan tested the voltage at various points though and I don't think that
>> side component is faulty. It's only spitting out 10.2 volts to the control
>> panel but on closer inspection the control panel should be happy with
>> anything above 9 volts up to 24. We don't think it's the battery because
>> that was recently replaced and also was able to successfully take a charge
>> on a trickle charger when removed from the control panel. So most likely
>> the Levcon control panel itself or the float tank sensor.
>>
>> The battery was behaving really strangely while connected to the
>> controller, but the leads to the terminals were loose and the connection
>> was bad which might be part of the battery draining. Maybe it also messed
>> up something in the controller that can get unmessed up. I'm not sure
>> exactly, but I don't think the new battery itself is the source of the
>> problem, I think it's just a symptom.
>>
>> I'm not actually sure what our next step will be after testing the
>> sensor, but we are in the process of ruling out various possibly failed
>> components while still protecting both the fire suppression and freshwater
>> systems.
>>
>> Tara
>> 508-361-9605
>>
>> On Sunday, August 10, 2025, Courtney Lewis <courtney.d.lewis at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For some reason, all of these emails are just showing up in my email box
>>> now?
>>> Sorry you guys have been dealing with this all week
>>> Sent from my phone with the “help” of my two young ones
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 10, 2025, at 3:09 PM, Tara Halwes <tarahalwes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> After 2 days the battery is up from around 6V to around 8.5V. Still not
>>> 12V but I guess it's charging now? (And / or I don’t actually know how to
>>> use a multimeter)
>>>
>>> tank level display is still jumping around wildly, but went from a lower
>>> jumping range to a higher jumping range after I unplugged and then plug
>>> back in the battery charger. Still, the highest number I’ve seen flash on
>>> the screen is 6.7 and scrolling through the relay statuses, the auto fill
>>> should be going (and still is not). Based on DaveR's Prior troubleshooting
>>> guesses, I assume this could still be due to the battery not being
>>> sufficiently charged for that relay to successfully signal the solenoid
>>> it's supposed to talk to. we had hoped it would have come on by now, but we
>>> were also assuming that the battery would be back up to 12 V by now, so I
>>> believe the next step is either too immediately replace this battery or two
>>> continue letting it charge and check back to see if the tank fill line has
>>> been triggered by tomorrow or Sunday.
>>>
>>> I’m hoping to have provided enough detail here that any regular tester
>>> on this list could check on that if you're available this Sunday but if
>>> it’s not clear enough what I’m talking about please let me know.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 17:18 Tara Halwes <tarahalwes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The tank level was still reading low, fluctuating rapidly between
>>>> around 4.7 and 5.1 feet.DaveR came out and did a visual inspection, and we
>>>> measured it at approximately 6 feet, which means the sensor reading is
>>>> incorrect, but also the level is still low enough that the auto fill
>>>> solenoid should have triggered, and it very obviously was not running. So a
>>>> couple things need to happen in the next day or two.
>>>>
>>>> First is we need to give the battery on on the sensor panel time to
>>>> recharge. The battery was down to something like 6 V and should be at 12.
>>>> It’s fairly new. One of the terminal leads was extremely loose so that was
>>>> tightened and it is possible That will be enough to get it to charge
>>>> correctly. It is also possible that when it charges correctly, The other
>>>> issues will resolve, but in case they don’t:
>>>>
>>>> - Make sure the battery charged back up to 12 V
>>>> - Verify the auto fill triggered and the tank is back up to 8 feet, or
>>>> at least above 6.9.
>>>> - if it sounds like it’s filling, but the panel still reads low,
>>>> visually inspect the tank level. Also check for running water sounds in the
>>>> great behind unit number 80 as that would indicate it kept filling past 8
>>>> feet which it should not do if the sensor is working correctly.
>>>> - Recalibrate the tank level sensor if it’s still reading incorrectly,
>>>> but the tank has filled back up. This procedure should be covered in the
>>>> manual above the control panel, but if not, DaveR can help.
>>>>
>>>> Default plan is Tara will do these things, but various medical
>>>> appointments might necessitate someone else stepping in to check on the
>>>> battery, etc.
>>>>
>>>> The rest of the test went fine and does not need to be redone until
>>>> next week. The system will come off of TEST in four minutes at 5:21 PM. I
>>>> will be unavailable for further troubleshooting this evening, but the
>>>> battery needs to charge anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Tara
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 14:51 Mike Gaisford <mgaisford at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I’m not been able to get back there to test. If you’re able to do it
>>>>> that would be great. Otherwise, I will try to do it tonight.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 2:43 PM Tara Halwes <tarahalwes at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Julius or Mike,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you re-test? If you did, let me know soon? Otherwise I’ll attempt
>>>>>> it sometime in the next 2 hours and report back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m reachable by phone or SMS text to:
>>>>>> 508-361-9605
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>> Tara
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2025 at 12:37 Phéna Proxima <adam at phenaproxima.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike asked if we should re-test. Per Daver:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, re-test as normal. If it keeps happening, try only opening the
>>>>>>> test valve enough to get a consistent drop in pressure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any further questions, let me know. I will also document this
>>>>>>> conversation and its findings in the SH trustee manual.
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 5th, 2025 at 12:20 PM, Mike Gaisford <
>>>>>>> mgaisford at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So is the direction to retest?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2025 at 12:12 PM Phéna Proxima <adam at phenaproxima.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Update from Daver on the sensor issue:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No need for Encore. What happened is that the waterflow sensor for
>>>>>>>> the building's own sprinkler system tripped. The waterflow sensor is near
>>>>>>>> the test valve. If there's a lot of turbulence in the pipes, that can fool
>>>>>>>> the sensor into thinking there's water flowing. Opening the test valve wide
>>>>>>>> open can make this more likely.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It doesn't mean there's anything wrong. Just keep lowering the
>>>>>>>> pressure until it gets to 80 PSI and the main pump turns on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>
>
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